The General Motors IPO will go down as one of the biggest in history after opening at $33/share, but will GM be the strong stock it once was or is it destined to fail once again? Either way, which side will you be on?
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YES FOLKS I CAN CERTAINLY ATTEST FOR "GM'S" INCOMPETENSE- I RECENTLY TRIED FEVERISHLY TO BUY
A NEW GM TRUCK---P/U--AND WAS MET WITH "WE DON'T WANT YOUR 5 YEAR OLD GM P/U IN TRADE SO
TAKE OUR DEAL OR" KISS THIS"---I'M TRYING TO BUY (FOR MY FIRST TIME) A FOREIGN (TOYOTA)
By fueling these waste full so called "car Gurus" with credit crunch incentive packages, which did not reach staffers
at the very bottom of the scale was in essence a waste of time and resource.Greater accountability and due diligence could have been applied in such a situation as this. I definitely believe that businesses should not be operating as normal and should go to the survival mode instead of the large profit-securing "stealth mode".
ross perot sold his years ago when he buys i will
Who in there right mind would have confidence in a stock that went bankrupt and was bailed out by the government with no major union or employer payscale adjustments or changes since their bankruptcy? Then to go public and sell off over the next year? I only see a slow drop in price over time with this scenario.... Enjoy the blips when you can profit from them. I will not take a chance...
I would advise caution and there is nothing bad in investing in GM, but to go with caution and
since its evaded bankruptcy and had gone to come this way using bailout money.
I would investors to exercise caution and also make sure to play with shorter picks. As said by somebody, there
are other stocks which are attractive and sound investments.
Amen
I think as a basic jumping off point. I will try not to invest in any company the government has showed involvment with for the past 2 yr.s and the next 2.
There are too many other good companies in each of the sectors i fallow.
I think were looking at a short term pump and dump here. Considering the Fed needs a stock price in the range of 40-50$/sh or so to B/e, I have a ridiculous conspiracy theory that the price will be artificially inflated to around that level via big institutional investors at the helm of the Fed. Considering they intend too release their position on GM within about 6 months, I think after that point we'll see massive sell volume and GM overtime will come to reflect its true value to the public....$0/sh. They also have not done anything about the $29B in unfounded pension liabilities...
This company hasn't changed significantly, its all perception.
Matt,
Thank you for your feedback.
I have this sneaking suspicion in the back of my brain that the government is going to manipulate GM stock to a price where they can't unload it onto the unsuspecting public, AGAIN!!!. This of course puts this thought into conspiracy camp which I would like to avoid.
I wouldn't touch this stock until we get some real volume and data that we can hang our hat on.
Let's see how this works out.
All the best,
Adam
My belief is that in the future the government will somehow set its' sites on Ford to get their hands on them.
Their goal is takeover, therefore they are not going to be satisfied with just one player in a sector.
Is this a rehtorical question? This country has gone absolutelt MAD!!
I pay my taxes on April 15. I don't feel like I need to add anything to the runaway GOVERNMENT coffers. Let's just say that I believe in CAPITALISM.
I LIKE MOST OF THE RESPONSES, AM NOT VENTUROUS ENOUGH TO INVEST IN A CORPORATION
THAT WAS RECENTLY BUSTED, BORROWED TAXPAYER MONEY TO RECOVER AND PAY WORKERS AN
AMOUNT PER HOUR EQUAL TO TWICE OR THREE TIMES OVER WHAT EVERY OTHER WORKING AMERICAN EARNS. BESIDES GM AND OTHER AUTO MAKERS HAVE INVESTED IN TO MUCH FOREIGN
CHEAP LABOR IN MEXICO, CANADA, AND CHINA.VERSUS CURBING THEIR GROWTH AND INVESTING
IN AMERICA. IMAGINE HOW MUCH MONEY WOULD BE IN SOCIAL SECURITY,WORK COMP,AND THE
UNEMPLOYMENT FUND IF THEIR PAYOUTS WOULD HAVE GONE TO AMERICAN WORKERS. THEIR
PRODUCTS ARE OVER-PRICED-AND I LOOK FOR THEM TO BE BUSTED AGAIN.
Many years ago there was a running joke going in a greeting card department. There were birthday cards that said on the cover something like congratulations, you are now a proud owner of stock in GMC. Inside was a facsimile stock certificate that read: GMC - Garfinkle Moosetrap Corporation.
Perhaps all the buyers think they are now buying shares in a company that will make money manufacturing and selling moosetraps. Or perhaps the buyers expect to find the bigger fools to sell shares to in the future. I expect GM to quickly run out of both bigger fools and mooses. Uncle Sam still owns way too many shares that it needs to sell for over $100 each just to break even. Either Uncle Sam (and the captive U.S. taxpayers) is the biggest fool or they're going to become bloody darn lucky. But then again perhaps the U.S. can manipulate the market.
I thought about it but why take a chance.There are better,more secure ways to invest in. I have bought in with ford a while back and doing ok. Ya seems failure is rewarded here,thanks to political buying of the votes on both the American and Canadian governments. I guess that's the governments looking out for the general public,ya right.
I'm sorry to hear about people losing on GM stock, when you had plenty of warning about a possible bankruptcy -- were you living in a cave? I happen to like GM cars, actually, and have bought many with 100k miles on them -- really barely broken in, drove for a couple years, and sold again when they bored me. I am no friend of any union -- why have two bosses, one of which is certainly corrupt, and that you have to pay besides? I've always refused to work for any unionized company, if the us vs them feeling is that bad, I want no part of it, period. But then, I have talent and can generally pick and choose the job I want. These days it's trading, which I enjoy.
I hope it was the UAW who loaned me all those shares I was able to short *after* bankruptcy became inevitable (and publicly announced for crying out loud). Because the profit bought me a 21010 Camaro SS, which is one jewel of a modern hotrod (and gets better gas mileage than my Honda Ridgeline by a fat margin, even driving it hard).
Perhaps this was a simple case of putting the lunatics in charge of the asylum just before failing (as Chrysler obviously did). So be it, it's a great car, and so was my Buick (2001), the Olds before that, the Olds before that, and the Buick before that (the cool one with the touchscreen in the dash, like the "innovative" Apple that was only ten years later), the pontiac before that....and so on. I liked Chrysler for hotrods before Lee Iaccoca made them forget how to make good ones. None of those ever let me down in a bad situation. The Pinto I owned stranded me in the middle of nowhere with a busted timing belt at 60k miles...The Fiesta blew a head gasket in the middle of a 500 mi trip and it wound up costimg a bit to get to my destination, and was the end of the car. My Dad's Chrysler "X" cars all melted in the sun -- no kidding they used hot glue and scotch tape to hold the dashboards together, and only they know why a head gasket wouldn't last 35k miles in them. The pt cruiser was a slick trick to sell a neon for double the bucks, eh?
My point is, you can dis any car company, even Honda or Toyota -- they all make mistakes. Earlier Fords had so much vacuum actuated stuff you couldn't find the engine under all the hoses, and something was always leaking. And did they handle or get good mileage (either gas or lifetime?). Come now. New Mustangs run in fear of new Camaros on that front. They aren't even fun to race with -- too easy to blow right past them, and they don't even get better gas mileage.
Yes, Wagoner and the UAW killed GM - but then, old inefficient management (which unions help keep in place, actually) helped with that too. So sad. They might die again, and if it looks that way, I'll be short again and maybe get another car off it. There was a time when GM had better supercomputers and better research than the US government, and shared a lot of it in Physics Today. Before all that -- they used to be pretty good.
It won't be a Volt I buy off the next GM trade. I know, having lived off the grid since 1980 (solar PV) all too much about *actual* vs advertised battery lives, and what their (or any other existing) tech can deliver. You want to see a backlash? Just wait a bit when people find out that, just like their portable power tools, instead of getting the claimed 700+ charge/discharge cycles, they get 25-50-100 and by then they are at half of new capacity if you're lucky...and need a battery that costs 2/3 of a new car....that will be the bitter end. With luck, they won't sell that many, or most people will use the engine mostly, not the batteries.
I'll keep driving my 420+hp Camaro that gets 26 mpg highway for awhile -- it's one fun ride, there is no match for under 100k out there, not even close. If someone had a brain, they'd just make 1/4 of that engine and put it in 1/3 the weight car, and you'd have a really green hotrod that was truly fun to drive and reasonably safe, the tech there is simply amazing. When I was a racer in the '70's we designed our dream street rod, but no one could afford it -- would have cost 50k in those dollars. Now I can get one for 35k in these dollars -- just as we designed it then. Finally.
Really, all the car companies have business models that depend on continuing increasing growth, but we are reaching a replacement market situation now (except in India and China). They tried to justify the huge (union required) price increases (my 77 Forumla Firebird was 6.6k new!) by making super good, reliable cars, so even the replacement market died on them. Instead of being dead meat at 100k miles, they are just broken in now (just about any good car is now like that). I scored for years from people who thought it would always be that way. I just sold a Buick with 150k miles on it that still has the original plugs, wires, belts, axles, bearings -- all it's had is an airbag issue and new brakes and tires an oil changes, and its like new (and got me a good price). That's truly a structural issue.
Mullaly saved Ford, no question, that man is a hero. I still don't like Fords that much, but I know a good CEO when I see one.
Doug,
Thanks for you in depth feedback and post.
Adam
Wednesday evening after the close of the regular trading session the US Treasury and the group of 12 banksters began working hard. For a cost of approximately $400,000MIL USD they started to ramp up silver, slowly, and then the S&P futures and gold. The crowd jumped on the metals complex which helped to fuel the futures upward so that by Thursday morning everything was up, up, up...They had the mass transnational media spinning this dog crap for a weel prior. It was the greatest ramp job that the cartel has pulled off seamlessly in years, aside from QE! and QE2, respectively. Opened at 35 and by today it was trading down to 33.74. The manipulation of this orgy was absolutely a golden opportunity to buy puts up the cabudle!!! Oh well, the Catholic Empire fell as well as the Great Republic as well as many other early empires...very clear which empire is next to fall...
If only the gov't had divided amongst each working taxpaying US citizen the trillions it gave to the banks during the bailout then we would have witnessed the gretaest explosion upward of GDP that the world ever recorded...about $400,000.oo per working taxpaying citizen. Mortgages paid off, new cars bought, retail sales unheard of...what a historical opportunity missed on the banksters....
You are dead one CORRECT. I have watched the GM disaster brew for years, was not surprised when it happened. It is a total UNION payoff.
Pelosi and her slavish followers were willing to slaughter the GM bondholders ( the stockholders, of course, lost everything ) while catering to their loyal friends in the UAW by bribing them with rewards for future promised votes. This was a lousy company which may well fail again in another ten years. Furthermore, we now know that we taxpayers will not be repaid unti
GM shares reach $54 per share. If then. I know I do not expect to live to see the day.
This is the first step in the journey to the next GM bail out. Will it be one year? Two? It is coming. It is just a matter of time. When will governments let this hideous monster die? Oh right - Obama and his ilk like to reward the terrible and punish the good. "Let's take money from those who are succeeding and doing well and give it to those who can't make a go if it."
In six months you'll be able to buy GM stock for $10/..if you even want it then!
Long term is always a bit IF for an IPO but the conditions of this one are interesting for short to medium term. They closed the books on it well before the normal time period, sold out, and UBS bank was also shut out of that sale completely. They and everybody else have to buy it retail, and since places like China and Europe have a growing awareness of GM (which is the biggest foreign car company there), the high profile image will create demand. You may be surprised how well this does in the next few months. I'm watching closely, will get in it for the money if it starts looking strong, I don't let my judgement get mixed with opinions of politics, unions, socialism and such, not my consideration when money is to be made. Americans may shun GM but China is getting behind the wheel.
Mark my words, there is a government conspirancy here and we are all going to pay for this when it goes down again. It will end-up in your 401K and there is nothing you can do to stop it. They are spreading the risk/cost throughout the market.
Hey Al I am not a former GM Employee,But that did not stop me from loosing 2100 stocks myself.NOT HAPPY
After 43 years in the "BUSINESS" they were doomed when they brought wagoner on board. The government was subsidizing them ( GREEN CARS ) for years and what do you have 1 car the VOLT, where's ALL THE BILLIONS that we gave them over time? Being a consultant and into MANY GM dealerships the dealers are the ones that got screwed, GM's saying was pass it on to the dealers.As for the IPO only and idiot would hold it long term AT THIS TIME,they are not on sold ground by NO means, as for the GREEN revolution they've been talking this crap for years, when the guy gets booted out of office in 2 years then what will we have, what a mess this country is in, FEAR AND GREED AT IT'S HIGHEST !
I noticed that you did not mention the parasitic banks. Allot more given to the banking cartel than the parasitic union parasites.
Once the media hype of this 'once great' company has ceased, and a couple shots of Jack Daniels, I may revisit GM. For now, I'll avoid it and watch from the outside with great amusement. I wish GM well, but they'll have to regain prominance without my money.
What is going on with Cisco? Is it bullish or bearish?
The Chinese bought 18% of the shares, the unions own a bunch, .....can you imagine a company whose board makeup will part socialist and part Chinese Capitalist...neither one having a clue what to do......
I think GM will have an initial bounce maybe 3 months , 6 months 1 year who knows ?????? But then will dwindle away to nothing and may even fail again .... Def not a long term hold
I'm buying Ford instead! With $33, I get 2 shares of Ford!
I think tha ultimately GM will fail again for many reasons, the two primary ones are that the government is running the show and the unions are involved. The unions are the main reason for the downfall of the company to begin with as well as many different companies in this country. They will all ultimately go down, because unions who have no stake in the ultimate product but continually badger the company with unreasonable demands eventually drive the company to ruin. Also, look at their involvement in the educational system of this country and where it is going -- more money for education and less learning and ability to find work and do it from the students that graduate.
And, what gives the unions, who are only supposed to be the spokesperson for the employees, the right to be involved, and now make out like fat-cat bandits? They have no right to be involved in the running of any company. That is conflict of interest to say the least. For crying out loud, has our country gone mad?
They sold some of GM to the chinese, pay back time...suckers...
GM has been a basket case for a long time. Go back to 1992, closed 22 plants, laid off 62,000 workers. Then a few weeks later paid the white collar workers 100 million dollars in bonus money.
GM has not made a good car in 30 years. The worst management in the history of US Business. Alfred Sloan would be rolling over in his grave.
Lousy cars, lousy management , lousy and corrupt union.
I think the G team is prepared to "insure" the success of this highly visible IPO, at least for the short term. The eye of Mordor is currently focused. What happens when other crises divert its attention could cause weakness, but this is a big play for the G team, and a collapsing IPO is not an option, as long as they call the shots. It won't be long before the crowd moves along, focusing on other issues, and generally discounts this IPO as a bellwether of G team prowess. Then, the rats will be allowed to leave.
I can not wait to short GM. With unions in control, government ownership, foreign involvement, a 'dog' like VOLT as a showcase vehicle, and the same pre-bankruptcy issues unresolved, GM is doomed to fail.
As a former GM Employee (retired), I lost 528 shares of common stock due to the BK. I sure am not in the mood to lose again. I choose to play with the penny stocks. Over the long haul, I believe that I will come out far ahead.
GM is all smoke and mirrors. They are still selling virtually the same truck under the GMC badge as Chevy... and they call this the new lean GM? GM should swallow their pride and visit a Toyota or Honda plant.
You must be kidding.
I wonder how much stock the UAW bought?
Michael,
I think one of the unions could've been the UAW sold $2 billion worth of stock yesterday.
All with tax payers money. Out of control!!!
Adam
I believe that this is an incredible short. with the USA government bureaucracy and the labor unions owning most of the company???? Come on! This is a gift to anyone who loves a short!
BUT.....
there are way too many other markets to play...
I wouldn't touch this one...it smells like low tide at a fish ranch.
Why is GM trading at this high level? is it because the Lib's and the goverment has a company in a their control and the big trading firms was told that they had to buy into this company IPO?
Ford Motors has everything going for it and a great future outlook for their operations. But the big firms sold it this last week, WHY? Is it because Ford Motor's is determain to do it the American way, by themself's and with hard and smart work. But GM took the easy way out, they could not handle the real hard to get their act togather like Ford Moter's did..
Ford is the better company all around, and will be the top company and stock to invest in for years to come, GO FORD...
well i have seen a few ipos in my time
but i never have seen this before:
Last but not least is the issue of GM's internal financial controls. Deep in the fine print of its prospectus was this: "We have determined that our disclosure controls and procedures and our internal control over financial reporting are currently not effective. The lack of effective internal controls could materially adversely affect our financial condition and ability to carry out our business plan."
Has anyone ever seen a paragraph like this in a propsectus before?
i am shorting this stock
I wouldn't invest in any durable goods company until we KNOW we are out of the woods in this economy. Too many outside AND inside conditions would affect the "flow", especially if the government is set to BAIL OUT companies that I am counting on to fail.
Buying GM yesterday was an pure emotional Trade......Bad trading move!!! Leave emotions OUT OF TRADING.
Not with my money...the union is going to drag this down again
Trading? Really.....This is not trading, it is a legal mugging. Call 911....OH! sorry...we can't do anything about it..it's legal you know, Obama said so!! Mugger to Victum....Now that I've robbed you I'm going to make you buy this back, because I don't really want it. Victum to Mugger....But I already own it why do I have to buy it back? Mugger to Victum....Because it's government work...now hurry up and pay me, I have to get back to Washington D C.
All politics aside, and that is difficult here, I won't be buying this stock. GM is making the same mistake it always has, which is pouring resources into a vehicle (the Volt) which will never, ever be profitable. And this is only one of many problems there. Same old, same old with GM. They will have to prove viability long-term and they never have before.
I dont think it is a good idea to buy after IPO hype. It would take time before it settles.
With all the volatility surrounding GM over the past year it wovld need an extremely brave or astute investor to put his money here Watching with interest
Let's see, we bought this once with taxpayer (our) money. The estimated cost of our purchase was $125-$140/share. Now, we are "selling" this collection of union parasites for $33/share? I feel like I've contributed enough. Unfortunately, pension plans are big buyers, so this is the gift that keeps taking. Glad it's not my pension.
goldgodon1345
I wouldn't even trade this stock with someone else's money. Especially not at $33 per share. The people buying it must be pretty stupid.